Word Arsenal
So, I regularly visit the folks over at Confessions of a Seminarian. It’s a cool blog, and they are a very respectful, calm group of people who are interested in discussing Christianity evenly and with grace. As a hardcore agnostic, I am happy to have this conversation with such a cool group of people.
But sometimes the writers over there get a little nuts with the vocabulary. I admit that I will whip out some pretty bullshit modes of talking (I once told someone asking about the theatre company I run: “it’s sort of a neo-brechtian attempt at modifying the congealed paradigms of theatre as a living, breathing organism”), those guys can get downright crazy! And sometimes I feel like I’m reading satire on scholarly elites, when they are, in fact, real people.
So there’s an article over there that approaches a god’s impact or relevance on what people generally view as bad things happening to them (getting beaten, raped, ignored, abused, etc.). I made the comment that I think it is arrogant to claim to know any god’s will (it’s a GOD!), and one gentlemen responded in the following way.
CAVEAT!! I’m not trying to start a blog war. This is just too funny.
Said Chris:
Kyle,
To defend Mike, I don’t think it is arrogant to presuppose that God’s wisdom is beyond ours and thus all bets on a thoroughly convincing theodicy are, in turn, beyond us. However, in affirming orthodox principles (the omnipotence, omniscience, divine foreknowledge, etc.) of God, often times people scoff at the lack of relevance/translation of such lofty claims to personal experience (such is the case with John’s story, for instance). Let us take each other where we stand. [...]
However, according to process theology, you are on to something. In fact, the problem of suffering through the lens of process is more accurately the problem of the lack of healing and comfort, the lack of compassion and awareness. In short, the problem of evil is the problem of acedia, indifference, the tragedy of a world which refuses to pray.
Depending on how far you take this (and this is where process gets a bit far out for me) prayer includes willing the movement of each and every molecule, the shrinking of every cancerous cell, etc. There is a spiritual and physiological response…
But faced with the enormity of what we’re discussing, I would echo the prudence of, “What the heck do we know, anyway?”
What the heck do we know, indeed! SOMEONE went to college.
I’m really not trying to make a personal insult, here. For real. I talk in pretty dumb ways a lot (on the opposite of the academic, I sometimes direct actors to be “be like time, like, zhooo, not like a tiger, because that’s too many claws!” WTF DOES THAT MEAN?! I don’t even know…), but I’m asking myself: how do people who write/talk like this communicate with other people?
Or, taking it away from the personal (because this is not a personal attack), I find it interesting how people use words to gain power over others. I’m pretty sure that most of humanity is locked in a dead-heat power struggle with one another, and I am definitely guilty of using words as weapons. I was talking with a friend a year or two ago, and I was telling her why I value words so much.
ME: “I want to be able to say exactly what I want to say. I don’t want to say, ‘like,’ ‘you know,’ ‘uhh,’ ’sort of,’ and so on. I want to see what I’m thinking and say just that.”
HER: “Well, will words ever be that good?”
ME: “Will I ever be that good, you mean.”
HER: “No one is perfect. So why do you want such perfect words?”
ME: “I want to have a perfect arsenal.”
And the moment I said that, I realized how idiotic it was.
I read this comment, and I think that this man is using this words to gain power and superiority over me. He seems like a nice guy. It’s probably subconscious. Most people aren’t trying to hurt and maim one another. Most people are just clumsy. I know I am.
And Chris, if you are reading this: it’s not personal.
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hahaha…. you’ve got a really good point Kyle. I know Chris somewhat and I can assure you that he at least did not intend to do so. Like you said, maybe it is subconscious. He’s a philosophy grad on his way to Princeton to study theology/philosophy on the master’s level. For him, words are an artistic medium. He leaves me in the dust rhetorically, but I know him well enough to know that he just comes off that way. I can totally see how you could hear it as such, though.
On a more extreme example, you should click over to SocietyVS blog and see how Mike got verbally abused for simple disagreement (the commentor’s name is yaelbatsarah). It is definitely a more direct and extreme example of what you are talking about…. http://societyvs.wordpress.com/2008/08/13/on-the-quest-for-expertise/#comments
Brad - August 15, 2008 at 11:02 am
Oh and no worries, we’re not going to get all up in your bidness like Russia on Georgia. BTW, how did your reading go Monday night?
Brad - August 15, 2008 at 11:03 am
I actually like what you have to say concerning the ‘will of God’. It’s a very tricky theological subject – that is for sure. I am not sure we can know the mind of God neither – like you mention – ‘it is a God’. I feel some humility in a stand like that personally – it seems like a very reasonable thing to say.
What you need to remember is when contending with this issue – some people might hold to an idea ‘we can know God’s mind’ – since they have the scriptures and what have you. I do not neccesarily stand in that camp altogether – namely when it comes to personal experiences.
I tend to think we can learn from suffering – and it can go either way for us – for the good in life – and for the not so good in life. Pain has a way of awakening our senses to deal with certain issues in life (ex: mortality).
SocietyVs - August 15, 2008 at 11:13 am
“On a more extreme example, you should click over to SocietyVS blog and see how Mike got verbally abused for simple disagreement ” (Brad)
It’s an interesting take on the scenario – I will admit Yael does not mince words. But Mike was making some claims about the Jewish faith (which she is a part of) that seemed a little off basis (trying to tell someone that is part of the Judaic faith what the Judaic faith is all about). I can see why she sees the need to get sarcastic and a bit on the strong worded side – maybe she feels some mis-representation?
societyvs - August 15, 2008 at 11:22 am
Ahhhhh, Confessions of a Seminarian is invading my blog!
I kid.
Brad, the reading went really well. Thanks for asking.
Kyle Kratky - August 15, 2008 at 11:22 am
Kyle,
See what you opened yourself for? lol…. I’m glad the reading went well! Hannah and I were going to try and make it, but when we realized it wasn’t a Kyle Kratky original, we weren’t quite as excited and watched the Olympics instead.
SVS,
Dude. Come on. Mike has ever only had a deep appreciation for Judaism (his heritage), and was trying to have an honest conversation about it. There is no way that kind of ad hominem, sarcasm, or flippancy was appropriate. She didn’t discuss the issues, she put Mike in a box and had a field day. We’ve had pretty heated conversations with others who disagree with us (i.e. De-Conversion, where it has always been respectful), but there is a mutual respect and accountability that needs to be afforded by both sides for constructive conversation to be possible.
Kyle,
I promise COAS will pull out of South Ossetia, and return to pre-conflict positions. No, really. ;-)
Brad - August 15, 2008 at 11:46 am
“She didn’t discuss the issues, she put Mike in a box and had a field day” (Brad)
Possibly, I like Mike personally – he seems like a genuinely good dude (for that matter everyone on the COAS site). I think if MIke does feel any disrespect the best thing to do would be to discuss it with Yael and try to work it out.
SocietyVs - August 15, 2008 at 1:34 pm
No, for real. You guys should get email addresses. Or a forum. Or a messaging program. Or use facebook.
Kyle Kratky - August 15, 2008 at 1:46 pm
Sorry Kyle – I am on facebook though (lol)
societyvs - August 15, 2008 at 2:49 pm